Curse

smilingscar · Oct 17, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

/not signed. Wanna interrupt/shutdown the heavy hitting baddies? Set Gwen (or Norgu) up with the right build and lock her on. Easy peasy!

I've seen heroes miss with interrupts in HM as well; enough times that I've given up on HM interrupts except special situations.

I'll /sign. The baddies are strong enough that it won't make much of a difference. It'll just open up more tactical options.

On a side note: does the decreased skill activation time stack with the increase attack rate for attack skills?

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 18, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

This is just a problem that arised due to Anets laziness. If they actually made the AI a lot smarter (and not just pushed numbers up) then HM would be fine. This won't happen unless Anet redoes HM, which won't happen, so /notsigned.

Arkantos · Oct 18, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Yes, I am FULLY aware this would make the game easier.

Then you should be fully aware why this is a bad suggestion by itself.

The way they implemented difficulty in HM is bad, yes. However, in order to improve it, they'll have to actually give them good AI, give every single monster a full skill bar that is good, tweak a lot of mobs, etc. It's not going to happen.

Kook~NBK~ · Oct 18, 2009, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingscar

I've seen heroes miss with interrupts in HM as well; enough times that I've given up on HM interrupts except special situations.

You have a point, and I only use Gwen to interrupt in a few select circumstances - Rit bosses with SR, a couple of Ele bosses, and that sort of thing. Usually she's good enough to get most jobs done. However, the Hero AI isn't always reliable to respond to enemy AI in the best way - I've caught her trying to use the wrong kind of interrupt on the wrong kind of skill on quite a few occasions.

And now that I've though about it a bit, when HM first came out I thought that A-Net missed a golden opportunity to make Mesmers more desireable for HM game play by the silly "Mesmers suck in PvE" crowd by cutting casting times by enemies.

I change my vote to /SIGNED.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 18, 2009, 03:40 AM // 03:40

/signed for OP's reasons

And also because it will help kill off the Protective Spirit based farming builds - slower enemy attack and skill times will help make 55/330/600/etc builds take longer, and in at least the 330's case, probably make them near useless.

If we want to keep up the difficulty, just make the enemies' attribute levels higher so they have an even greater effect with the skills.

Cuilan · Oct 18, 2009, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

/not signed. Wanna interrupt/shutdown the heavy hitting baddies? Set Gwen (or Norgu) up with the right build and lock her on. Easy peasy!

But I want to interrupt/shutdown.

AlsPals · Oct 18, 2009, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I facepalmed. Then facepalmed again.

Rofl. Yea, I gotta /sign, but its unlikely. HM was like bad freeware:Underperformed and included malicious scripts(loot scaling). Thanks to stat pumping, I run around at any given time in HM with a Shared burden/Arcane Conundrum spiritway setup that rolls HM...but not in a fun way. Its like you have to either have layers of defense while you pick away at creatures or rediculous offense ala Discordway or in my case Ural's Hammer/EBSOH comp stomps. You really cant just run any old build and expect to get through.

Eragon Zarroc · Oct 18, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

meh, would just make HM easier, but it is kinda unrealistic that monsters get to cast faster at all. why have skill casting times when mobs don't have to obey them?

MagmaRed · Oct 18, 2009, 01:18 PM // 13:18

My typical build on my Ranger and Necro (2 classes I use most for HM) takes none of the things most people in this topic say are needed to succeed in HM. I'll even give you the COMPLETE builds for my setup to show you that HM can be done without problems and not using the stuff most here say is needed.

Ranger:
Triple Shot
Dual Shot
Savage Shot
Distracting Shot
Asuran Scan
Conjure Frost/Flame
Glass Arrows
Summon Mursaat/Ice Imp

Necro:
Barbs
Insidious Parasite
Spiteful Spirit
Enfeeble
Rip Enchantment
Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
Necrosis
Technobabble

Heroes I use are always Dunkoro, Gwen, and Livia (unless doing something that requires a specific hero like Jennur's Horde).

Dunkoro:
Ethereal Light
Dwayna's Kiss
Orison of Healing
Dismiss Condition
Cure Hex
Signet of Rejuvenation
Holy Haste
Unyielding Aura

Gwen:
Clumsiness
Wandering Eye
Tease
Power Drain
Power Return
Frustration
Inspired Hex
Restore Life/Resurrection Chant

Livia:
Animate Bone Minions
Animate Shambling Horror
Death Nova
Jagged Bones
Masochism/Blood of the Master
Protective Spirit
Aegis
Dark Bond

And the hench I take depends on which campaign. Eye of the North I use Lena, Zho, Herta, and Eve. Nightfall I take Kihm, Herta, Eve, and Sogolon. Factions I take Kai Ying, Eve, Daemon, Professor Gai, Redemptor Karl, Seagard Gita, Aeson, and Erys Vasburg depending on where I am. Prophecies I take Lina, Eve, Claude, Alesia, Dunham, Aiden, and Reyna depending on location and team size.

No melee, no Discord/Sabway, none of the needed skills mentioned in this topic, and no consumables. On rare occassions I'll use a Summoning Stone, but I usually forget to use them since I don't need them.

Daemon, Zho, Gwen, and Erys Vasburg all do fine with interrupting things for me. On my Ranger I don't focus on interrupts, but I manage to do enough with it for what I need. I don't see a problem with the current HM setup. I agree it wasn't done in the best way, but I don't think that the change you suggest will make it better.... just easier.

Tenebrae · Oct 18, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

This is just a problem that arised due to Anets laziness. If they actually made the AI a lot smarter (and not just pushed numbers up) then HM would be fine. This won't happen unless Anet redoes HM, which won't happen, so /notsigned.

Yes , like we all know HM is not "balanced" but the casting time issue is crazy. They should have made casting times to be the same and HM spells to have 30% more "effect" , for example :
- Hexes last 20% longer
- Nukes damage 30% more ( except bosses , they already have boosts )
- Heal for 20% HP
And so on .... you can still block , cripple melee foes but in HM interrupting casters is almost impossible , that part is not balance but i dont think they are going to do something about it.

If that matters /signed for a HM rebalance including casting times

upier · Oct 18, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Then you should be fully aware why this is a bad suggestion by itself.

The issue is that I don't see the increased skill activation speed being a decisive factor in making the game harder.
Increased speed makes just interrupting harder. Of course, nobody in their right mind would advocate interrupting as a viable tactic - quite simply, because killing foes is achieved so easily and death is the ultimate shutdown. Which basically means is that a game where interrupts aren't used really isn't that much harder (if at all) in HM DUE to the increased speed.

What reducing the speed would do is make interrupts usable. They still wouldn't be viable because you'd STILL achieve better results by just killing something or simply KDing them. But in a game where HM is easy enough for the better players to get though just with usable things - this would be sufficient.

Lifestyle · Oct 18, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

So...you automatically assume everything sucks and has no balance because a bunch of retards from PvX wiki run cookiecutterassassins? You need to get out there more my friend.

Waitwaitwait... PvE is balanced?

Captain Bulldozer · Oct 18, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

I don't think the way anet implemented HM is really all that problematic in and of itself. The reason why many find HM "easy" is that after 4 years there are plenty of very knowledagble, skillful players out there. The more you know about the game, the easier it gets. You pick up on various strategies which exploit the AI of the foes regardless of how challenging the AI is designed. A human brain, even the pathetically atrophied brain of the average GW player, will eventually win out on any finitely designed fixed strategy of a computer game.

As for interrupts, I play a memser an awful lot in HM, and don't have a huge problem interrupting... but I also have a pretty solid connection. Plus there are skills like technobabble, "You move like a dwarf!" and Broadhead arrow to make the job easier. To those who would complain about mesmers being useless in HM because of it being harder to interrupt, I say blah blah blah. Faster cast and attack times also means skills like empathy and backfire trigger a lot more often, not to mention the fact that any damage a mesmer deals is armor ignoring, which puts them lightyears ahead of Elementalists in HM for example. A mesmer using reactive damage can utterly explode foes in HM.

I also don't consider something like discordway a gimmick. The fact is that HM often requires a team which is simultaneously strong in defense and offense. Discordway just happens to be one that heroes can run effectively. There are plenty of others that fit this idea, spiritway, sabway, even running an old school bonder in the right team.

So in short, if you find HM isn't enough of a challenge, consider that in some ways your addiction to GW is responsible, not necessarily something due to the game design. If you want a challenge, try building a setup that isn't widely used and adapt to make it work well.

Kook~NBK~ · Oct 18, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

But I want to interrupt/shutdown.

Me too. (That's why I changed my mind about this)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I facepalmed. Then facepalmed again.

And exactly where did I say that "no one plays mesmer?" Oh wait, I never said, or even implied any such thing. My main character is a MESMER

-TYVM.

MithranArkanere · Oct 18, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

HM could have had better builds and monsters skills for monsters that don't have them like EotN monsters instead just buffs, and that's not something fixed, it could change.

If that's done then I won't mind this.

But as they are now, many monsters won't have anything else. Loof at Prophecies Hard Mode monsters. There are many with just 2..4 skills.

Winterclaw · Oct 18, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I always thought shutdown was more a pvp thing...

Does hard mode need improvement? Yes.
Does it need more than +stats for mobs? Yes.
Is anet going to do anything about it? No.

MithranArkanere · Oct 18, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Well, there IS a 'monsters with obsolete builds" project on the wiki, but it deals with builds after skill changes, not with monsters with so pathetic builds that you can beat them in seconds in HM with just Flare and Aura of Restoration.

Arkantos · Oct 18, 2009, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

/signed for OP's reasons

And also because it will help kill off the Protective Spirit based farming builds - slower enemy attack and skill times will help make 55/330/600/etc builds take longer, and in at least the 330's case, probably make them near useless.

If we want to keep up the difficulty, just make the enemies' attribute levels higher so they have an even greater effect with the skills.

Makes farming harder for 55/330/600 builds, makes the game easier for everyone else. Fair trade, right?

Also, big numbers doesn't make the game harder. The whole reason why hard mode fails is because ANet added challenge by making monsters hit harder and made them do everything faster. They still have the crappy AI, most of them still have crappy skill bars with less than 8 skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The issue is that I don't see the increased skill activation speed being a decisive factor in making the game harder.
Increased speed makes just interrupting harder. Of course, nobody in their right mind would advocate interrupting as a viable tactic - quite simply, because killing foes is achieved so easily and death is the ultimate shutdown. Which basically means is that a game where interrupts aren't used really isn't that much harder (if at all) in HM DUE to the increased speed.

What reducing the speed would do is make interrupts usable. They still wouldn't be viable because you'd STILL achieve better results by just killing something or simply KDing them. But in a game where HM is easy enough for the better players to get though just with usable things - this would be sufficient.

It makes the game harder in the sense that enemies are going to be doing bigger damage in a shorter period of time in hard mode. It's crap, but unless ANet completely revamp hard mode to make it an actual challenge instead of monsters that hit harder and do everything faster, then it's not going to change. Getting rid of monsters decreased casting time without changing anything else is only going to make this ridiculously easy game even easier.

Axel Zinfandel · Oct 19, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

PvE sucks right now for a single reason.

Anet when they made the game back in prophesies days made PvE, well, balanced in the fact that someone already said. It was like a sort of 'proving grounds' for PvP. PvP was their main focus, and the skill system, AI, ect was no doubt created WITH the ideal in mind of PvP over PvE.

Although it was a good idea on Anet's part to further seperate the play style of PvE from that of PvP, their biggest mistake in GW was assuming that they could work with their single system for both PvP and PvE. The Developers probably didn't see the distinction they do now in that a system and skills that make GW PvP the success it is/was, can't just be slapped to PvE with the expectation that it will be good as well.

As such, the PvP/PvE skill split came way, way too late, and isn't even being implemented to it's full potential, their idea for HM, a good one at first, proves to be a joke with the current skills out there (like Shadow Form). Anet, correct me if I'm wrong, has realized that their current game cannot handle what they want to do, so here comes GW2.

My point? PvE was skrewed from the moment Anet thought that slapping a PvP style game and skills in a PvE atmosphere would be a good idea.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 19, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

To those who would complain about mesmers being useless in HM because of it being harder to interrupt, I say blah blah blah. Faster cast and attack times also means skills like empathy and backfire trigger a lot more often, not to mention the fact that any damage a mesmer deals is armor ignoring, which puts them lightyears ahead of Elementalists in HM for example. A mesmer using reactive damage can utterly explode foes in HM.

Consider that those foes have a better AI. Let's say they stop casting when hit with backfire, waiting for their monk to clean it. Maybe they pre-veil? The caster with SS will move away from his flock and cast through it, pause if his health drops too much and he detects his team taking pressure. The warrior with empathy will do the same etc. Now THAT would be HM, increasing numbers just makes the "farm" take longer.

Quote:

I also don't consider something like discordway a gimmick. The fact is that HM often requires a team which is simultaneously strong in defense and offense. Discordway just happens to be one that heroes can run effectively. There are plenty of others that fit this idea, spiritway, sabway, even running an old school bonder in the right team.

I agree with you on this. Sabway, racway, discordway what have you are all fair, balanced builds. I have a much bigger problem with the SF sin tank or the 600 setup etc. If foes moved away from pbaoe or stopped attacking through SS this whole idea of an invincible tank would just fade away. What's the point of a SF sin when the foes will just ignore him. Whenever I run into a bozo like this in pvp I just ignore him and wipe the rest of his team. One can only hope that the steroid monsters in pve will one day catch on.